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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guy at work swears by an oil and filter change after the first 1000 miles. I know in the old days it was supposed to be a good idea but then so was running the car in. Is this recommended / worth the cost with new modern engines?
 

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i don't see the point - why not change it at 6months old if you don't want to follow the recommended fluids schedule.
 

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i don't see the point - why not change it at 6months old if you don't want to follow the recommended fluids schedule.
Agreed. If Audi say it's ok ( and I am old enough to have had to mandatory oil changes after the first 1000 miles on cars) then go with their recommendations. Oil and engine technology has changed appreciably since my youth lol
 

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How long do you want to keep the car. If more than 15 years and 200K miles then maybe, you want the best reliability, but if anything less then don't waste your money. Best to do 10K mile services rather than long life servicing which can be 19K miles.
 

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At the risk of sparking more controversy I am also of the age that remembers 1000 mile post running in oil & filter changes. Oil is in essence the life blood of an engine hence common sense would suggest that one should use a premium product in a high tech unit.
Whereas I do not personally think there is any necessity to change the lubricant at 1000 miles I am wary of the ability of even the latest generation of lubricants to still provide the same level of protection at 15-20000 miles as it does when new and as a consequence I have changed both oil & filter at the half way point, usually 8-9000 miles, since Audi launched variable servicing in 2000.
Cost of 504.00/507.00 oil around £7-8 per litre plus a genuine filter at £5-10 and an hour of DIY time is not a lot for peace of mind. Costco members can currently buy Castrol Edge 5w30 (504.00/507.00) for £5 + VAT per litre.
I know some members will say this is not necessary but it is a all a matter of personal choice and cannot do any harm.
 

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At the risk of sparking more controversy I am also of the age that remembers 1000 mile post running in oil & filter changes. Oil is in essence the life blood of an engine hence common sense would suggest that one should use a premium product in a high tech unit.
Whereas I do not personally think there is any necessity to change the lubricant at 1000 miles I am wary of the ability of even the latest generation of lubricants to still provide the same level of protection at 15-20000 miles as it does when new and as a consequence I have changed both oil & filter at the half way point, usually 8-9000 miles, since Audi launched variable servicing in 2000.
Cost of 504.00/507.00 oil around £7-8 per litre plus a genuine filter at £5-10 and an hour of DIY time is not a lot for peace of mind. Costco members can currently buy Castrol Edge 5w30 (504.00/507.00) for £5 + VAT per litre.
I know some members will say this is not necessary but it is a all a matter of personal choice and cannot do any harm.
Sure, can understand your point of view....
 

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Leave it alone. The oil filter that the engine is equipped with when it leaves the factory is of a higher specification (traps smaller particles) than the service item that will be used from the 1st official oil change. So let the engine bed in with optimal filtration and save your money.
 
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john, surely not! How do you know this? and do you know why.
 

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Old and wise
. I've worked for most of my life in the motor industry in various different roles, initially in the retail end of it ending up managing the aftersales side of what was then one of the UK's largest motor groups. Aged 30 (I'm 56 now) I got into IT, initially installing systems into garages, and then designing and implementing systems for vehicle/capital equipment distributors all over the world. From there I got into automotive manufacturing, again all over the world through a strange twist of fate I've just finished nearly 6 years in Aerospace & Defence...never a dull moment.

When you work closely with automotive manufacturers one discovers that they have learned to supply their vehicles to the market knowing that the greater majority will be driven by uncaring drivers with zero mechanical sympathy, abused from day one with 'warranty' actually being a special kind of insurance policy taken out to protect the manufacturer from the risk of open ended claims. The high-spec filters and reduced performance until properly bedded in engines are just ways of off-setting the risk of having the uninformed masses drive their products.

There was a time, before the wholesale adoption of sophisticated electronics and powerful engine management systems coupled with advanced materials that premature engine failure was common place. In fact when I started out in the trade in the early 70s the average life of an engine was about 60,000 miles. By the end of the 70s that was nudging 90k and now 30+ years after that no one blinks at 150k+, the evolution in reliability has been remarkable. Back in 1973 if you bought a new Ford the 1st free service was at 1500 miles, included an oil and filter and was processed as a warranty claim, the next service was at 6,000 miles...how times have changed.
 

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Old and wise
. I've worked for most of my life in the motor industry in various different roles, initially in the retail end of it ending up managing the aftersales side of what was then one of the UK's largest motor groups. Aged 30 (I'm 56 now) I got into IT, initially installing systems into garages, and then designing and implementing systems for vehicle/capital equipment distributors all over the world. From there I got into automotive manufacturing, again all over the world through a strange twist of fate I'm just finished nearly 6 years in Aerospace & Defence...never a dull moment.

When you work closely with automotive manufacturers one discovers that they have learned to supply their vehicles to the market knowing that the greater majority will be driven by uncaring drivers with zero mechanical sympathy, abused from day one with 'warranty' actually being a special kind of insurance policy taken out to protect the manufacturer from the risk of open ended claims. The high-spec filters and reduced performance until properly bedded in engines are just ways of off-setting the risk of having the uninformed masses drive their products.

There was a time, before the wholesale adoption of sophisticated electronics and powerful engine management systems coupled with advanced materials that premature engine failure was common place. In fact when I started out in the trade in the early 70s the average life of an engine was about 60,000 miles. By the end of the 70s that was nudging 90k and now 30+ years after that no one blinks at 150k+, the evolution in reliability has been remarkable. Back in 1973 if you bought a new Ford the 1st free service was at 1500 miles, included an oil and filter and was processed as a warranty claim, the next service was at 6,000 miles...how times have changed.
Very interesting and makes absolute sense. Perhaps this explains why some us us appeared to notice an uptick in performance after the first 11-13k miles?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Old and wise
. I've worked for most of my life in the motor industry in various different roles, initially in the retail end of it ending up managing the aftersales side of what was then one of the UK's largest motor groups. Aged 30 (I'm 56 now) I got into IT, initially installing systems into garages, and then designing and implementing systems for vehicle/capital equipment distributors all over the world. From there I got into automotive manufacturing, again all over the world through a strange twist of fate I've just finished nearly 6 years in Aerospace & Defence...never a dull moment.

When you work closely with automotive manufacturers one discovers that they have learned to supply their vehicles to the market knowing that the greater majority will be driven by uncaring drivers with zero mechanical sympathy, abused from day one with 'warranty' actually being a special kind of insurance policy taken out to protect the manufacturer from the risk of open ended claims. The high-spec filters and reduced performance until properly bedded in engines are just ways of off-setting the risk of having the uninformed masses drive their products.

There was a time, before the wholesale adoption of sophisticated electronics and powerful engine management systems coupled with advanced materials that premature engine failure was common place. In fact when I started out in the trade in the early 70s the average life of an engine was about 60,000 miles. By the end of the 70s that was nudging 90k and now 30+ years after that no one blinks at 150k+, the evolution in reliability has been remarkable. Back in 1973 if you bought a new Ford the 1st free service was at 1500 miles, included an oil and filter and was processed as a warranty claim, the next service was at 6,000 miles...how times have changed.
So I wont be changing my oil or filter then! Thanks for sharing the info which was really useful and informative.

You learn something new every day.
 

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John, nice story but I still can't understand why they put in a high spec filter at the factory. Surely if I took out the factory filter the part number would be the same as the one bought from the Audi dealer and given that engines are strong and very reliable with no failures likely in the first 100K miles, I would not have thought that a different filter would be used at the factory.

I do remember reading about 10 years ago that new engines were filled with recycled oil to help engines bed in. Any views on that one.
 

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Very interested to read SQ5john's insider comments but Shabazmo's point about part numbers is in my experience true. I have changed the oil & filter in virtually every new VAG car I have owned in the last 27 years between services and in all cases used the same part number of filter as was fitted at the factory and have not noticed any material difference in the 2 filters when compared side by side.
I did have one experience which may support SQ5johns point with a P chassis number, 1993 model, 80 2.0 petrol which had a very different oil filter fitted compared to the usual one fitted to most 4 cylinder petrol VAG cars in the 80's & 90's. This particular filter was larger in diameter, slightly shorter in length and had red rather than white lettering on the body of it.
When I tried to order a replacement the dealer said the recommended one was the longer, thinner one with traditional white lettering. They found the fatter red letter filter on their parts fiche and ordered one. It cost twice as much and most interestingly weighed twice as much as the recommended one so probably had more sophisticated innards.
Needless to say when they serviced the car @ 10K miles they just fitted the bog standard white letter filter.
This is the only time in my experience of 16 new VAG cars that the factory fitted filter differed from the one listed on the VAG Parts database at the dealer.
Regardless I think that fresh, factory approved specification (currently 504.00/507.00), oil cannot be anything but beneficial for the engine even if the replacement filter is not the of the same quality despite identical markings to the original factory fitted one.
 

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Spoke to a Audi Master technician yesterday and mentioned about different factory fitted filter.
He said the same filter and oil is used from new and when serviced.
In years gone by other manufacturers may of done this but not in his 12 years as a Audi technician.
 

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Interesting.

I have to say I really can't think of anyone that I actually know, in any brand, in the last, say 15 years, who's had engine reliability problems regardless of how they ran that engine in. On the other hand, I hear about people having various electronics related gremlins across many different brands (including VAG products) all the time, and oil changes won't help that.

So regardless of filter part numbers, if I was worried about longevity beyond 200,000 km, I'd buy a Toyota. Otherwise, I follow the manufacturer's recommendations for proper service and operations and replace the vehicle before the 200k km mark (by which point it will be more than 10 years on and you'll likely be ready for a switch).
 

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Qship, you coulf probably go further than that. My Sharan purchesed new in 1998 has 231,000 miles and no engine work done. Bit I did change the oil every 5000 miles for the first 100,000 miles and 10,000 thereafter
 

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Qship, you coulf probably go further than that. My Sharan purchesed new in 1998 has 231,000 miles and no engine work done. Bit I did change the oil every 5000 miles for the first 100,000 miles and 10,000 thereafter
Yes, I agree, but what I found with my last vehicle (MY'04 V8 4Runner) was that by the time I was getting close to the 200k km mark the vehicle was 10 years old and vehicle technology had inevitably moved forward in that time. My last vehicle was in perfect condition and will likely go another 200k miles without issues (I was fastidious on maintenance and generally changed oil more frequently than required after the warranty expired, but only followed the manufacturer's recommendations during the warranty period), but I was ready for all the nice extras a MY'14 car now offers (better fuel economy, more power, better handling, improved safety systems and, of course, all the electronic frills.)

When I originally bought the 4Runner it was my intent to mile it out, but I started to realize that if I did that I wouldn't be able to get a new vehicle for another 15 years.
 
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