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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I have a Q5 2.0TFSI, S-tronic (DSG), S-line exterior, 19" 10-spoke rims since October, with 4,200km on it, of which around 65% on highways with speed of 120-190km/h (after the first 2000km). The average petrol consumption is 12.5l/100km for the whole 4,200km (setting 2 on the trip comp.).

What concerns me most is the motor oil consumption. Couple of days ago, at 4,200km, I've got a "add oil" warning, suggesting that I should add 1L at most. I went to the dealer, and they claimed that this is perfectly normal. I was charged 1L of Castrol long-life oil (5W30, around 18 EUR) and the serviceman put the whole 1L in the engine.

Therefore, my engine consumed 1L of motor oil for the first 4,200km (and the oil-level was about half the way between min. and max. on 1,400km). Is this normal? What amount of motor oil are your engines consuming? Let's make a comparison to know what is "normal", I know that the Audi manual claims that anything up to 1L per 1,000km is ok... (!)

Regards,
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hello kaine and thanks for the reply.

When I bought the car, the level of motor oil was at Max (completely full bar), checked trough the MMI (more specific trough the Concert radio).

I checked it at around 1,400km and it was around 60% from the Max.

At 4,200km I unexpectedly got a "low oil level" message from the system, the level was at Min. and the MMI suggested that I should add at most 1L of oil, which is how much the serviceman actually put.

So, according to my estimations, the engine consumed more oil (per km) during the first 1,500km than during the subsequent 2,700km.

The employees at the dealer claim that it's nothing unusual for a turbo engine to consume this amount of motor oil.

Any thoughts on this?

Regards,
 

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if we listen to the dealer, everything is normal... until something breaks down
now 1 l after 4200 km is not so terrible, even if other engines easily reach the service-limit without add-ups
it depends on the way every engine is setting in (you comsumption can either further go down)
I would only worry if the following occurs :
- blue smoke when starting the motor (you also will smell it)
- blue smoke when suddenly taking off gas at high (engine) speeds (watch your back...)
- dark deposit on the inner pipes of the exhaust (normally perfect clean)
but this is not probably not noticeable until oil consumption grows to more than 1 l / 1000km...
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've checked and there ARE dark (black) deposits on the inner side of the exhaust pipes. The deposits look something like laser printer toner. How sure are you that this is not normal? (with Tfsi motors...)
 

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certainly with FSI-engines, the exhaust pipes should remain absolutely clean
this was even so with my good old A4 with V6-petrol engine after 110.000 miles...
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Guyduke, thanks for your reply. In the meantime I have spoken with with a friend who works in the headquarters of Audi in Ingolstadt. You were right. He says:

- In principle, an (Audi TFSI) engine should not burn 1 liter of oil after 4,000 km, BUT with a certain percentage (number) of engines this does happen during the period of "break-in".

- The black substance (powder) on the inside of the exhaust pipes is probably related to the burned (1 liter) of oil.

- From now on (after 5,000 km), the consumption of oil should dramatically decrease or - in best-case-scenario - should stop completely.

- If the consumption of oil continues with this pace, then there's something wrong with the engine and it should be inspected by an authorized service as part of Audi's 2-year warranty.

- Everything that is done on the engine/car, should be written in the log, and the owner should have a copy of the document, to prove the history of the problem.

- If the engine proves to be faulty (a so-called "Monday-engine"), and if the local service doesn't admit the problem, then the car/engine can be fixed in any Audi authorized service throughout Europe as part of the 2-year warranty.

So, it turns out that this does happen with a certain small percentage of engines from Audi... What I've learned is that I don't have to rely on the ethics of my local dealer/service to admit (and fix) the problem.

Cheers,
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
An update on the issue:

- My car consumed another 1L of motor oil from 4,250 to 8,500 km, exactly the same distance as the first 1L. Therefore, the consumption did not move a bit. Guess this is an example of the German preciseness.


- On other forums, I found plenty of Q5 TFSI owners complaining about motor oil consumption, and most of them have to put 1L per 5,000 km.

- This is in addition to the info from the Audi engineer. The quoted information on the Internet It doesn't mean that everybody with a TFSI has an oil-consumption issue, it may be that only those with problems bother to post on forums...


- BTW, the user's manual says that "consumption of up to 0.5l of oil per 1,000 km is normal".

Regards and happy New Year!
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
billydkid, I once had an Alfa Giulietta which, toward the end of it's life, probably used the same amount of oil as your Q5. I considered that to be too much but given that the engine had done around 300k km's of flogging I just put up with it. The hassle of putting oil in every 4,000km is one thing but I'm sure that with oil consumption like that there is no way it would pass an emissions test - there could be an angle there.

Just out of interest, how did you run the car in - first 50km, next 100km, next 500km, next 1000km etc.?
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
CrustyNoodle, thanks for the suggestion reg. the emissions test.

For the record, here's how I ran the car:

- 0-15km - by the factory and by the dealer (they drove it forth and back to a test station for certification/registration, I don't know in what way they were driving the car...)
- 15km-25km - by me, half day of city driving in stop&go traffic, no high revs.
- 25km-425km - highway, mostly around 120km/h, around 2000-3500 revs/min, I used full-gas (up to but not inside the red area) few times for 1-2 seconds
- 425-900km - constantly city driving, mostly 2 x 3-5km distances per day, full-gas couple of times for a couple of seconds
- 900km - 4150km - constantly on a highway, mostly around 120-150km/h, from 1500km on I went >180km/h for periods of time.
- 4150km - 4250km - city driving, that's when the oil indicator first came on a minimum level.
- 4250km - 4850km - city driving, mostly 3-5km distances
- 4850km - 8150km - constantly on a highway
- 8150km - 8500km - city driving, the oil indicator came on again.

Regards,
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
billydkid,

Thanks for the detailed reply - apreciated.

I can't say for sure if your run in technique has anything to do with the oil consumption as it sounds very typical. I think you have done the correct thing in taking it up to the red line on occasion but I probably would have avoided the highway driving early on as it doesn't load up the engine as much as stop - start traffic.

Oil consumption can be caused by a number of things but the most likely candidates are valve stem seals (very unlikely in a new engine and diagnosed through blue smoke on engine overrun (when you take your foot off the throttle to change gears)). The other is through oil getting past the piston rings which is most likely on a new engine. Rings seal best when they are "run-in" to the cylinder when the engine is new. The worst possible outcome from running in an engine (read piston-ring-cylinder fit) is if the rings don't bed in properly and you end up with glazing on the bore and the rings such that they never bed-in. There are some schools of thought that say you should be very careful and gentle when you run in an engine and there are others that say you should take advantage of the cross hatching from the honing process as soon as possible to seat the rings by giving the engine a good hard workout when it is fist started (and warm). I'm not so silly as to recommend either technique but I do have my own ideas that I choose to follow.

I think most engines end up at a happy medium in terms of the run-in that they get and most engines bed in nicely and use very little oil. I think in this day and age, if an engine consumes a lot of oil it is most likely to be a manufacturing issue than a usage one.

I've seen some interesting techniques to "fix" recalcitrant engines but, again, I wouldn't recommend any of them.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
CrustyNoodle,

Thanks for the comment and advices. I hope that you'll get your Q5 soon!


I will post an update on the issue after a total of 15,000km on the engine (now I'm on 9,400km), or if I get different suggestions from a service centre in Germany.

My dealer and their service center in Skopje, Macedonia (there's only one official importer/dealer/service in the country) claim that the oil consumption is perfectly normal, and I plan to get the car checked in a service in Germany. The 2-year warranty is valid anywhere in Europe, so...

Anyway, it would be great if someone from the visitors of this forum owns a TFSI engine and shares his/hers experience.

Regards,
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The oil level on my 2.0 TFSI was showing as full on delivery and dropped to about a quarter full after 2,250 miles.

To avoid the oil level light coming on, I put in just under 0.5l of oil, which brought it up to three quarters full.

I haven't run the engine in as gently as perhaps I should have done. I was in need of some cheap thrills after about 200 miles and have put my foot down a few times since then...
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I don't think it will hurt it one little bit, giving it a bit of stick from the go-get as it is more likely to get the piston-ring-cylinder fit on track. I think you'd need to be more concerned with not giving it enough. Put it this way, when they test the engines on the production line, do you think they start them up and give them a gentle tootle before pronouncing them fit for service or do you think they start them up, warm them up and then give them a proper flogging?
 
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